Template talk:Lynching in the United States

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WikiProject United States (Rated Template-class)
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Scope[edit]

The challenge of this template is that it can never be inclusive enough, as there have been thousands, but the majority of which would never be counted as notable enough for WP articles. It is estimated that 4,743 lynchings happened in the US between 1882 and 19681; how can this template ever possibly reflect that? As it stands this is a shamefully inadequate tool. • Freechildtalk 21:41, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I wondered about this myself. I think that we can set the notability guidelines for victims of crime as a baseline for inclusion here. This should include quality (B-class or better) articles on lynchings that: precipitated political changes (see Emmet Till), are of national or regional importance, are well-documented case-studies, and/or particularly infamous crimes (see Mary Turner). Others (such as Eliza Woods) should probably be folded into existing articles and removed (in Woods' case, Ida Wells-Barnett). It is likely that lists and categories are the most effective tools to document the lion's share of notable victims. Those non-notable victims comprising the vast majority of those 4,743 can only be documented in Deep web by descriptive statistics.
That said, I think that we needn't become overly concerned, as the template has some way to go before it becomes unwieldy; further categorization of the victims (racial, cattle rustlers, labor organizers) will occur as the template evolves. On the other hand, I don't spend too much time in the Template namespace so perhaps I'm mistaken. — James Estevez (talk) 03:07, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Instead of the woefully inadequate and misleading list of incidents and victims, I am WP:BOLDly removing those two sections of the template. I believe it will be impossible to complete such lists and I believe the template will be far more useful and informative without that misleading information included. Toddst1 (talk) 20:39, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Chronological order?[edit]

Instead of using the alphabetical order, shouldn't we re-order them chronologically please? I think this would make more sense.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:42, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree. See the multiple victims section; I did that. deisenbe (talk) 17:39, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Resolved

John Trotwood Moore[edit]

Should we add John Trotwood Moore? Are there other pro-lynching individuals we could add?Zigzig20s (talk) 14:45, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Deisenbe: Thoughts?Zigzig20s (talk) 13:50, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
Where did you get the lynching from? In the article his article cites as its authority, the Bailey one, p. 20 there is defense of “anti-black violence”. Is that to be equated with lynching? Or did I miss something? I’d like to read exactly the words Moore wrote.
But an out and out lynching defender should be mentioned. deisenbe (talk) 00:08, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
User:Deisenbe: On page 25 (with the picture of the tree): "Moore--a trained attorney, the son of an Alabama judge, and the descendant of a United States Supreme Court justice--became one of the South's more strident advocates of lynching."Zigzig20s (talk) 00:20, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
That’s pretty clearcut. I also found him as a defender of lynching here: https://www2.tntech.edu/wrc/DuckRiverManual/History/Gilded_Age_(1877_to_1917)/Gilded_Age_Bibliography_Combined.htm#Clifford

In the Encyclopedia of Alabama it says “his racist views, which are expressed either directly or indirectly throughout his writings,”

I found a whole book of his:http://www.roanetnhistory.org/moore-songs-stories-tn.html

Search for the n* word in: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/23637/23637-h/23637-h.htm. deisenbe (talk) 01:39, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I would rather not, this man's article is already creepy enough as it is. But he was notable as the state librarian/archivist and the author of several books, so we had to include this info from the JSTOR article.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:11, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
The part about lynching may need to be fleshed out in his article however.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:36, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Changing this template to a sidebar[edit]

This template is getting long and it may get a lot longer. Sometime it will have to be collapsed. I can do that as a sidebar, and then there could be a thumbnail. How to do it elegantly as a template I don’t know how to do and at Teahouse nobody knew, though I could take my inquiry further. Anyone got a problem with this change? deisenbe (talk) 00:12, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I prefer this template. A sidebar won't work with shorter articles. It doesn't matter if it collapses, it can be "un-collapsed."Zigzig20s (talk) 01:14, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
What do you think should be done with this bulky template? deisenbe (talk) 01:23, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
We should add a line with lynching advocates under the victims. There was Moore; who else?Zigzig20s (talk) 01:33, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
Done. deisenbe (talk) 12:47, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
What do you mean by “a sidebar won’t work with shorter articles”? deisenbe (talk) 12:47, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
They are long and if there is a sidebar, we can't add pictures. I prefer templates like the one we have now.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:37, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Possible article for somewhere in the template[edit]

Harmon Murray is about a criminal who died at the hands of an associate, but three of his fellow gang members were lynched, and Murray would likely have been lynched if he had been taken alive. The article covers the three lynchings, but I am not sure how or where it fits in the template. - Donald Albury 23:59, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Joseph Smith's death[edit]

I'm sure it was very sad and illegal, but it was a two-way gunfight, with bullets flying on both sides -- not to mention that Joseph Smith had an armed paramilitary group at his command, which he called on to defend him (but it didn't get there in time). It's really not what is ordinarily called a "lynching"... AnonMoos (talk) 08:32, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

No reply for over a week, so removing Joseph Smith from template. AnonMoos (talk) 16:38, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Lynching supporter[edit]

Benjamin Tillman was a loud and proud lynching supporter... AnonMoos (talk) 09:06, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Oops, didn't see he was already included. AnonMoos (talk) 16:35, 3 November 2019 (UTC)