Template talk:Maritime republics
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|WikiProject Croatia||(Rated Template-class)|
The name of the maritime republic is "Republic of Ragusa"
The name of the maritime republic is Republic of Ragusa, Dubrovnik is just the modern name of the city in Croatian Language. There's no reason to write Republic of Dubrovnik, cause it's not properly. If someone want to propose different opinion should write here, indicating reliable sources.
According to the title of the template, the list should show Maritime republic names, so it must indicate Republic of Ragusa, not Dubrovnik. Reading the name Dubrovnik, the reader couldn't be able to associate it to the Republic of Ragusa.
- No, the name Dubrovnik was used and recorded in documents from early 14th century. Kebeta (talk) 20:57, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
- I cite for your use and information from the articles of en.wikipedia "Dubrovnik":
- «With the fall of Austria-Hungary in 1918, the city was incorporated into the new Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes (later the Kingdom of Yugoslavia). The name of the city was officially changed from Ragusa to Dubrovnik.»
- Look here. So, please do not perseverate in your edit-war. --Theirrulez (talk) 21:31, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Re: Let's talk about it ;)
The pleasure is bilaterally, but your changes are flippant. Dubrovnik was originally not one place, but two, divided by what's now the main street called Stradun. One on the seaward side was called Ragusa, populated by people of Roman origin. On the landward side it was Dubrovnik, populated by Slavs. So, from the beginig of the city the name of Dubrovnik was used, although officiall name was Ragusa, derived from it's historical Greek name. The treaty with Bosnian Ban Kulin in 12th century is the first official document where the city is referred to as Dubrovnik (on paper).
- Here are some references for you to see (note that I didn't put any Croatian sources):
- Francis W. Carter: Dubrovnik (Ragusa): a classic city-state, p.45
- Peter F. Sugar: Southeastern Europe under Ottoman rule: 1354 - 1804, p.171
- Piers Letcher,Robin McKelvie,Jenny McKelvie: Dubrovnik, 2nd: The Bradt City Guide, p.3
- But all this is not an isue here. The consensus on wikipedia is that the city itself is called Dubrovnik, and the republic is called Republic of Ragusa. If you don't think this is correct, you can ask on the article talk page for moving the name from Dubrovnik to Ragusa. Until than I must ask you to stick to this consensus, and not to change Dubrovnik to Ragusa.
- If this explanation is not sufficient, please chose where you want to continue the discussion. It is silly to write the same message on six different places on wiki. Regards, Kebeta (talk) 09:26, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
- Originally Ragusa was one place, named "Ragusa" or "Rausa" or "Lausa" or something similar. The Ragusan Giacomo di Pietro Luccari wrote in his Copioso ristretto degli annali di Rausa (In Venetia, 1605) that "atorno li anni del Signore 1035 (...) si fabricò un'altro corpo di Rausa verso Tramontana, dov'era un bosco delle olive, et alberi salvatichi, che scendeva al mare, et nella lingua Slava si domandava Dubrava, onde derivò il nome di Dubrovnik". So, the name "Dubrovnik" comes from XI century. In the Historical Archive of Dubrovnik you can't find a single document coming from the Ragusan officies (Senato, Rettore, Cancelleria etc.) with the name "Dubrovnik" as official name of the city. The famous "Charter of Kulin Ban" (Povelja Kulin Ban - 1189) was the first document wich presented the name "Dubrovnik". It was also the first written Bosnian document. But it was a document coming from the Kulin's court, written from a clerk named Radoje. So, this charter isn't a Ragusan document. The name "Dubrovnik" was for the first time the official name of the city in 1867, together with "Ragusa". The old name was scrapped only in 1920, after the Treaty of Rapallo. Here you can see a page from the "Repertorio delle località del Regno di Dalmazia" (Zara, 1872), the list of the official names of all the Dalmatian "communes". Regards.--22.214.171.124 (talk) 15:03, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
As I know the Republiche Marinare were 4 (Venice, Amalfi, Pisa and Genoa. User:Lucifero4