User talk:Pbrower2a

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Welcome![edit]

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Welcome to Deep web, Pbrower2a! I am Marek69 and have been editing Deep web for quite some time. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Deep web! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page or by typing {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Deep webn! Oh yeah, I almost forgot, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. If you need help, check out Deep web:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!

Marek.69 talk 01:24, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

References[edit]

Just follow the steps 1, 2 and 3 as shown and fill in the details

Thank you for contributing to Deep web. Remember that when adding content about health, please only use high-quality reliable sources as references. We typically use review articles, major textbooks and position statements of national or international organizations (There are several kinds of sources that discuss health: here is how the community classifies them and uses them). WP:MEDHOW walks you through editing step by step. A list of resources to help edit health content can be found here. The edit box has a built-in citation tool to easily format references based on the PMID or ISBN.

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We also provide style advice about the structure and content of medicine-related encyclopedia articles. The welcome page is another good place to learn about editing the encyclopedia. If you have any questions, please feel free to drop me a note. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:35, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Welcome[edit]

Welcome!

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Please bear these points in mind while editing Deep web

The Deep web tutorial is a good place to start learning about Deep web. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and discussion pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~ (the software will replace them with your signature and the date). Again, welcome!  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:34, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

September 2011[edit]

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November 2011[edit]

The cycle is not the cycle unless one person completes it. Four players accumulating the hits is a trivial coincidence. — KV5Talk • 01:12, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

I am asking you to revert your change on Hitting for the cycle. The scope of that article clearly states that it is about single-player cycles, the only cycles recognized by major statistical sources like Retrosheet and Baseball-Reference, as well as Major League Baseball. Your addition of trivia is adversely affecting the article's integrity. Continued disruptive insertions (see history) could result in further warnings or a block. — KV5Talk • 01:27, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

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Thank you for your contributions to Deep web! Jamietw (talk) 17:20, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you![edit]

Minor Barnstar Hires.png The Minor barnstar
Thanks for your edits to Bruglary. Bearian (talk) 16:30, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

July 2013[edit]

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January 2014[edit]

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Information icon Welcome to Deep web. We welcome and appreciate your contributions, including your edits to Anachronism, but we cannot accept original research. Original research also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Thank you. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:51, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

July 2014[edit]

Information icon Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of published material to articles as you apparently did to Anachronism. Please cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Thank you. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:21, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Warning icon Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Deep web's no original research policy by adding your personal analysis or synthesis into articles, as you did at Anachronism, you may be blocked from editing. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:16, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested[edit]

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August 2014[edit]

Stop icon You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you violate Deep web's no original research policy by inserting unpublished information or your personal analysis into an article, as you did at Anachronism. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:42, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

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Please note that the discussion you added your original research to is well and truly defunct.
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False Zinc cyanide edits[edit]

Recently saw your edits on the page Zinc cyanide where you edited the subscripts for the synthesis section. I saw you changed Zn(CN)2 to Zn(CN)4. I think you are mistaken because the oxidation state of zinc is a positive two charge while the charge on the cyanide anion is negative one. Only by combining one Zinc with two cyanides can this compound be made neutral and stable. In the future please check my cited reference or, at the very least, find a creditable reference of your own before make changes to Deep web. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThunderSkunk (talkcontribs) 12:51, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

What I saw was sulfur in the wrong oxidation state, and that was the intended edit. Zinc of course is in the +2 oxidation state in all normal compounds. Mix-up unintended. Pbrower2a (talk) 12:59, 29 September 2014 (UTC)


I was mistaken as to your intentions, my bad. Thanks for catching my zinc sulfate errors. I should have first looked at the change notes to see what you actually did instead of just noticing it was off. Sorry if I came off as condescending. Happy editing and thank you again for fixing my mistakes. ThunderSkunk (talk) 13:09, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

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"More doctors smoke" example[edit]

Are we sure this is truly an example of an appeal to authority? It doesn't quite seem to fit the bill - they're not saying they're experts on cigarettes and as such should be trusted on them. Its an appeal to respect or honor, but it doesn't quite seem to be an appeal to authority per se. What're your thoughts? 24.252.141.175 (talk) 05:15, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced authority -- the consumer preferences of a highly-respected profession (an unnamed national survey) on a commonplace object. If an advertisement were of something more benign than cigarettes -- apparel, ballpoint pens, marques of automobile (I remember when Buick was widely known as "the Doctor's Car"), literary magazines, or choices of vacation -- it would still be abuse of the authority that physicians have. It is the ad agency and a tobacco company, and not the medical profession, that attributed authority (more doctors smoke XXX Cigarettes) that does not exist.

Physicians have legitimately accrued some authority; they can tell people to change their ways. They can tell a patient to stop smoking, stop drinking, change a diet to lose weight, move their asthmatic children away from respiratory distress, avoid illegal drugs, eschew reckless sexuality... People with such authority have good cause to not cheapen it by applying it to irrelevancies. Physicians lose credibility when they become hucksters. For good reason we rarely see physicians appearing on TV to promote anything other than their medical practice.

The fault with the fallacy of an appeal to authority is not that authority is always to be distrusted; if a physician tells a drinker who has a liver in the early stages of cirrhosis must stop drinking, then that authority is valid. The appeal to authority becomes fallacious when the authority is suspect. The advertising agency that created the ad in question abused the legitimate authority of physicians, an authority that physicians legitimately need for doing their job effectively. Pbrower2a (talk) 10:41, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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Argument from authority page[edit]

Hey, I noticed you were active recently on the argument from authority page. There's currently a lot of discussion on the page right now, you might be interested in coming and chiming in! 97.106.144.198 (talk) 16:29, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

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July 2016[edit]

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Argument from Authority[edit]

Hi there - I see you were active on the argument from authority page awhile back. It looks like there's some disagreement on the matter now, maybe having an extra voice like your's would help? FL or Atlanta (talk) 12:39, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

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Uncited additions to Apex predator[edit]

Hi, I'm not sure what led you to make uncited additions to this article as you are not a first-time editor and I don't feel that issuing a warning template would be appropriate. Let me therefore say simply that Verifiability is a core policy of Deep web; this means using Reliable Sources instead of editors' own knowledge or opinions, which is called "Original Research" in Deep web policy and is strictly forbidden here. Essentially, articles must reflect the overall understanding of the topic in the scientific literature. I do hope that is clear. Further, the article is in my view essentially complete and fully cited, so it would be appreciated if any substantial changes, should any such be considered necessary, would be proposed on the talk page initially. Many thanks, Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:46, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

You are wasting a lot of time trying to make changes to that article which are wholly against Deep web policy – indeed, WP:Verifiability and WP:Reliable Sources are core pillars of the whole project – the encyclopedia would collapse without them. You are continuing to argue your uncited personal opinions about content (dogs and Inuit, for instance), without looking at the problem, which is that editors must not attempt to rely on their own opinions, but must begin from reliable sources. It really is essential that you understand this if you wish to continue editing Deep web, as these policies are how it works. I urge you again to read the policies carefully and thoroughly, as they are the nub of the matter. There is no future in basing your thinking on WP:Original Research.
I do hope this is clear. I wish you well, and thank you for taking the time to understand these core policies. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:19, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
I am very sorry to see that you have now tried again to add uncited materials to the same article on the same topic. I have made clear above the extremely well-defined policies above, which I explained equally clearly are central pillars of the encyclopedia. It would be very helpful if you could take the time to look over the relevant policies: this should not take long. You have been reverted repeatedly with polite explanations, and you have been given repeated and detailed warnings on ignoring policy. Your continued attempts to edit-war uncited materials into the article are becoming disruptive editing, for which severe sanctions apply. Thank you for your understanding. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:07, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


The addition is short, and it links to other Deep web articles. Hunting and fishing between humans and dogs is well known behavior about in the same level as that dogs wag their tails.

Do I need to cite that dogs wag their tails?Pbrower2a (talk) 20:11, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Neither length nor links can justify WP:OR, uncited additions. No reliable source says that man-and-dog is an apex predator, nor are they so considered. Your opinion that they are is I suppose a case of WP:SYNTH, a synthesis of various things, each of which might be true, but their synthesis is a step too far. Humans hunt, true. Dogs are predators, true. Humans and dogs are powerful teams, true. Apex predators are powerful hunters, true. Humans and dogs are apex predators: WP:SYNTH - not true. You are not being asked to cite the obvious: you are being asked not to claim the untrue because you feel it ought to be so, that's all. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:14, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

But because of suppression of other large predators (bears, wolves, and big cats) in much of the world, humans and dogs are by default the top predators in large parts of the world. Where such animals as wolves, bears, big cats, crocodilians, sharks, and giant snakes remain, dogs and humans may not be the top of the food chain. Thus in Indiana, where there are no wolves, bears, Big Cats, crocodilians, sharks, or giant snakes, humans and dogs are top predators. In Florida, alligators have dogs as prey and are not top predators there. Humans are obvious prey for tigers in India; lions, leopards, and hyenas in Africa; and crocodiles anywhere that there are crocodiles.

Is it because human hunting or fishing with dogs is not 'nature'? There is already some ambiguity about some human behavior (animal husbandry leading to commercial slaughter of animals as food) as predation. But this said, "armed human with dogs" is really-bad news for anything that could be prey for either. Herding of animals of any kind by dogs? Such is also behavior of wolves. Pbrower2a (talk) 17:35, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Your first paragraph: you are reasoning from your own beliefs, not from reliable sources. This is "original research", which is forbidden on Deep web.
Your second paragraph: no, this is nothing to do with "nature", everything to do with what the reliable and verifiable scientific sources do or do not address. Once again you are reasoning from your own beliefs. Once again, you are trying to inject original research into the article, which is not permitted. It really would make discussion easier if you took the time to read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest these core policies, as without that understanding your ideas and any discussion simply go around in unprofitable circles. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:18, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Here is a start with a reference to a book on the early collaboration of early modern humans with the wolf. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/01/hunting-with-wolves-humans-conquered-the-world-neanderthal-evolution

Any collaboration between humans and wolves (wolves are recognized as top predators) gave early Man an advantage over any early-human competitor as a hunter. Wolves and humans adapted together, but although modern humans have evolved little physically, Man has selectively bred wolves to be just as lethal as wolves as predators to everything but humans and perhaps (in some cases, as with sheepdogs) livestock. Wolves and early dogs collaborated in the kill and (as packs) scared off such predators as big cats, bears, and hyenas that would have chased off humans to get the meat. It might be ironic that the best friend of Early Man was one of the most skillful predators on Earth -- but it was a winning proposition for both Man and Wolf, and in turn Man and Dog. The human-wold collaboration was safer for the wolf who didn't have to confront a large herbivore with hooves, horns, and teeth.

But let me cite some of the material:

(quote) “Early wolf-dogs would have tracked and harassed animals like elk and bison and would have hounded them until they tired,” said Shipman. “Then humans would have killed them with spears or bows and arrows.

“This meant the dogs did not need to approach these large cornered animals to finish them off – often the most dangerous part of a hunt – while humans didn’t have to expend energy in tracking and wearing down prey. Dogs would have done that. Then we shared the meat. It was a win-win situation.” (unquote)

There was a subtle change in a small part of the human body, one that distinguishes modern Man from all other Great Apes, including Neanderthal Man, who did not survive even if he was a formidable hunter in his ownright:

(quote)

Consider the whites of our eyes, she states. The wolf possesses white sclera as does Homo sapiens though, crucially, it is the only primate that has them.

“The main advantage of having white sclera is that it is very easy to work out what another person is gazing at,” added Shipman. “It provides a very useful form of non-verbal communication and would have been of immense help to early hunters. They would been able to communicate silently but very effectively.”

Thus the mutation conferring white sclera could have become increasingly common among modern humans 40,000 years ago and would have conferred an advantage on those who were hunting with dogs.

By contrast, there is no evidence of any kind that Neanderthals had any relationship with dogs and instead they appear to have continued to hunt mammoths and elks on their own, a punishing method for acquiring food. Already stressed by the arrival of modern humans in Europe, our alliance with wolves would have been the final straw for Neanderthals. (unquote)

These look like citations from a book.

Wolves have since evolved into dogs, but dogs are just as lethal as wolves when hunting with humans. Dogs make humans into better hunters. Add to this, the human family and the wolf pack have similar structures, which explains the durability of the human-dog relationship. Wolves (and their descendants, dogs) have partially shaped human behavior.

Few wild animals desire to meet either Man or a pack of dogs, let alone any combination of Man and Dog. Yes, a leopard might kill any single dog as prey, regardless of the size of a dog, yet a pack of dogs can scare off one leopard. A pack of dogs might be as lethal as one tiger. Ask me about my experience working one day on the 2010 Census.

It may seem like hyperbole to recognize the human-wolf (that became the human-canine) relationship as the most important of all relationships between humans and large, lethal predators. The only relationship between Man and another carnivore to last so much as a tenth of the time is that between humans and a small, even more lethal carnivore -- the domestic cat who has suppressed the population of rodents that would nibble away on human stores of grain if unchecked. If wolves and their canine descendants made Man an effective hunter, the cat made Man able to maintain an agrarian civilization. If those are not the most important relationships between humans and lethal carnivores, then what is? (OK, cats are too small to be apex predators, as is so of some small breeds of domestic dogs, even if they have many similarities with the Big Cats in build and behavior).

Your criticism is welcome. The link to the book is now void. I want the argument to appear in a compact form. Pbrower2a (talk) 23:32, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

It would honestly help enormously if you read the policies. The book you mention does not appear to talk at all about "apex predators", the subject of the article. As I explained a while back, you are not allowed to assemble ideas in this way: Deep web calls this synthesis.
Suppose you read a book which says dogs and humans form an effective hunting team and cite that. Then you find a paper on management which says that teams are powerful, and cite that. Then you find an ethology PhD which says that wild dogs in Africa hunt in teams. Excited, you rush to the anthropology and archaeology library to find a shelf of books on the Out of Africa hypothesis. Finally, you locate a journal paper on apex predation which says that apex predators are important in ecosystems. Now you conclude that dogs were critically important in making early humans into apex predators on the plains of Africa. This is WP:SYNTH.
No, what you must do is find one or more review articles which state, IN SO MANY WORDS, that man-and-dog constitute a novel kind of apex predator. If those articles are in reputable journals, then the opinion is worth citing in the article. If not, not, and that's an end to it: that's what Deep web's WP:OR and WP:SYNTH policies are about. It really would be courteous of you to at least look through the policies so you understand that this is how Deep web works: the encyclopedia is a summary of what scientists (and engineers, politicians, ...) have been reliably reported to have said. Deep web is not a place where editors, however distinguished and however great their personal but unverifiable knowledge, can assemble ideas into their own theories and constructs. I do hope this is clear: it is core to how the encyclopedia works, and I have made repeated attempts to explain it both simply and in your own terms.
I shall be away for a while now; I urge you to resist the urge to edit, and to take the time to read and understand the relevant policies that I have now many times described and linked for you. Enjoy the summer. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:59, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 18[edit]

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ArbCom 2018 election voter message[edit]

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U.S. Route 136 in Indiana[edit]

Hello. I stumbled upon your edit to U.S. Route 136 in Indiana. Although you are correct in asking for a citation, that is not the proper way. Please refer to WP:CITENEED and use the proper wiki markup. Good day. FunksBrother (talk) 19:27, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Citation quality[edit]

As a courtesy to all other editors and readers, it would be great if you could ensure that anything you add to an article is cited to the same quality and style as the rest of the citations in that article. As it happens, Starfish is a Featured Article and it uses citation templates, so in a case like that you ought as a matter of principle to use the same kind of citation template as is in use. By the same token, you should not be adding uncited materials to any article. Many thanks for your co-operation and understanding. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:17, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

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Ryan Costello (baseball)[edit]

Hi. Please see: Talk:Ryan Costello (baseball) ... and Deep web:Articles for deletion/Ryan Costello (baseball). Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:41, 22 November 2019 (UTC)